Talk about Buddhism

Recently I (Elmar) and S. had a conversation about religion and Buddhism:

I turned out to have the following questions:

That was also the header when I finally gave a printout of this dialogue to a Buddhist monk: Here is the dialogue in detail so that you can see my arguments why I am asking and why these things are not clear to me (Please excuse if my speech is sometimes not too friendly, I am a pagan believing in spirits (as you do) and I already had some bad experiences with relgion especially with Christianity when I fell in love with a native woman from Brazil some years before. If you like you may even visit my web page which is https://www.elstel.org):

I think translate it's work but maybe not so good.
But I would like to try.
If don't understand I will ask you.

Isn´t it already very late at you in Thailand?

Umm
2 am.
But I would like to try
Maybe finish tomorrow
we can chat tomorrow in the morning as well
I will be online with Facebook when I know that you will be theer
there

But be honest....very difficult to understand seminary Thesis (I have given her this article: What do you believe in - God or Nature?)
Ohh!!
Thank you
So!!when I understand thesis well..what can I do?
Can I help you?

Come on its not my seminary thesis it is just a public article (though my current seminary thesis should also be not too hard to understand for non computer scientists). The article I have given you has some references to science nevertheless.
what do you mean by thesis? the article I have given you?
now; just let us discuss about it

Yes
I think thesis you sent to me just by your own
He he
Ok now i get it
Hmm
So now you are still studying?
This is master degree?

Yes I have the bachelor but I am currently doing the master.

What the main subject you are studying?

computer science with subject multimedia
we learn about video encoding, about semantic picture and video analysis; in one lecture we have programmed a ray tracer (computer graphics).
computer science with subject multimedia

Ok
I think your education will going good.
I know that you are interesting on computer.
So!!will be easy for you to study the thing do you like most.
And thank you for let me know how was going on about you. I'm happy to hear from you.

thx from my side - nice to talk with you

Your welcome

Di, 18:27

... and, have your read my article?

Hi
Here
Yes
But not really understand much
It's about religion?
Elmar
Are you busy??

oh, a pity, was the translation very bad?
or are you missing some background knowledge?

Noo
Pity of me it's better
I really don't understand
Talk about believe
the spirit

a thrush and a blackbird were bathing in the drip mat of a flower pot which I have prepared for this purpose on my terrace

Ummm
love+clink

luckily I am no more there; were there for just a month
What you believe in Thailand is for sure more close to my belief (something like animism) so I am not convinced of Buddhism either.
Do you believe in spirits?

Yes I believe
beautiful
Can I see you? S. did give me a video-phoning request
Maybe better we talk

Well, I´ll look for a photo ..

Hahh
Video call
Here
Not a photo

I don´t have a webcam at work at the moment.

Happy to see you. You looking good.

pleasure

the photo is not very old; believe I look the same at the moment

Yes I know

What I would critize about Buddhism is that you can argument an arbitrary injustice with it. It just says that a low birth is caused by karma. I believe that way people will cease to fight against injustice.
no I really look virtually the same

Me now
Ok
beautiful
or say nice

no I really look virtually the same
Sure!! I mean that you look real and not different from before I met..
Ok talk about Buddhism

what do you think

beautiful

I'm not to be old woman right now
karma for me being from the Things what are you do.. .if you do bad and make people are sad or unhappy even you too unhappy it mean you make Bad karma But if you are doing somethings and make you are happy and not hurt any body it's mean good Karma

It is also a question who will judge about it - a bad or a good entity (the Christian god is a bad entity for me)
I'm not sure you understand what I mean
I would not trust in the decision of a bad entity
to do good

I would not trust in the decision of a bad entity

Yeah me also

I mean I believe that all people should be equal (from birth on) but religion does not achieve that; none of the religions.
the entities of religion are bad entities
to my belief
Who tells you that all the karma-story is true? perhaps its just another way to argument injustice (and there are many if you have a look at different religious systems)

It is also a question who will judge about it - a bad or a good entity

Bad or not you can design because you know when you do that ...are uou happy or not
So!! Bad karma or good Karma it's happening by yourself
we can not always forsee if we or others will be happy but I guess it is about the intention to spread happiness

I just ask you who decides about it
there needs to be an entity to see and decide whether you have done good or bad I guess
it is not as simple and natural that it could be decided by its own I guess

Ahh!!umm who design?? Yourself design..

You have missed a call by S.
Dienstag 18:59

there are ulterior motives you may not even be aware of ...
it is not that simple
honestly I prefer writing - it will be more clear and understandable

Elmar how to explain...

I am not sure if I would understand your spoken English that well

I really want to tell you but it's not easy to say
I am not sure if I would understand your spoken English that well

Yes
I'm not sure I can good explain..

once more consider my arguments; I believe they do not miss the point
how is it determined?

You are good English but I'm bad English

yes, I believe the grammar can be tricky for you
you have a good English online dictionary?

Yes now I use too.. When you give me a long question
Hehe
tongue smiley

I use Google translate

once more consider my arguments; I believe they do not miss the point

Hmm
About Karma ...who decided..?

... a sparrow has just drunken from the drip mat ...
yes; who decides it?

No body decides....but yourself decided

I would only decide good for myself
isn´t that a contradiction that bad people would decide bad about themselves
bad people do always decide good for themselves and bad for others

I would only decide good for myself

No..if do you think these is good but it's not good for another it's mean you are doing bad karma

that is a little bit oversimplifying I´d believe - some people lie on themselves and they believe their own lies

If you do the things you are happy and not make another sad or unhappy it's mean you do good karma

so they lie themselves in not doing bad to others when they really should know better
there are so many unfaithful people! just think about climate deniers
I believe it would be unjust to apologize them (also: There is bad ideology making people do bad while they deem their own ideology always as good and thus think they are doing good.)

that is a little bit oversimplifying I´d believe - some people lie on themselves and they beliebe their own lies

Noooooooo..if you are lie anndf maybe some body not know that's you are lie because they are trust You..but!! You know that you do lie because you can't lie yourself... it's bad karma because you know that you are you still lie

many people do not know any more that they lie because they have always been lieng and they forgot about it

so they lie themselves in not doing bad to others when they really should know better

If you are lie but it's not make another sad and you know that you are lie but you also happy with that it's not bad karma

pardon: lying
not lieing

He he

lying is a bad thing you should not ly even if you believe the other one would be happier with your lies
you never know the ultimate consequences of lying; they are almost always very bad!
pard: lie not ly

Yes of course we believe with Five precepts

what are the five precepts
?

And... number 3 is not lying
Please wait
I search

  1. to abstain from taking life
  2. to abstain from taking what is not given
  3. to abstain from sensuous misconduct
  4. to abstain from lying and hard speech
  5. to abstain from intoxicants as tending to cloud the mind
     The Five Precepts is the major part of the Buddhist practices to become more self-discipline. Observing the Precepts is a way to gain mastery of the mind.

I did not see the five precepts for themselves; perhaps translate the page ...

Please wait
I will mark

I believe it is plasphemy to eat meat and not want to kill animals. You cause animals to be killed and that is not less bad because someone else will do the job and be unhappy.
I believe hard speech can be necessary to enforce what is true to my best knowledge
I do especially hate unfaithfulness about man made climate change f.i. (to my belief it can sometimes be justified to hate – you need strong feelings in order to be capable of acting sufficiently strong)
It is a really bad thing
to abstain from what is not given - does that include taxes? they are taken forcedly! - but no state could survive without them
I believe if you are doing justice then you are doing the right thing

Hmm
though a good conversation needs to be taken about what is just and what not

to abstain from sexual misconduct - tell that to the catholic priests!
love+clink
we are not baggers and sometimes you need to take what is yours

Elmar.. please come here to Thailand I will take you go to the temple..to ask the monk who can speak good English..they can explain you better than me
teardropcrying
I can't explain
It's hard to write to make you understand

perhaps Buddhism is not much better than the other religions
about karma: maybe there is a super-self which decides and which we are just part of.

perhaps Buddhism is not much better than the other religions

Hmmm
Buddhism is Super
Really

What I wanted to tell Buddha is that even if the thing about karma was true that he should not tell it to the people because it does not make earth a better place for us.

Please wait
I show you

it just enforces injustice
I do not like it

I have a suggestion for you
copy and paste our dialogue
and bring it to a Buddhist monk

perhaps he can argument better than you in your place at this time

Elmar

never back off before the truth!
promise me that you will do it
he can give me a written answer

If I know English I will not try to looking for another dialog and copy ...but I not know how to write or speak

I am sure that you will find a monk with good enough English
do it for me if you are not interested in it
promise me?

Please wait
I will read snd translate what do you say
Just moments please

do it for me if you are not interested in it

Elmar I'm interested
But I promise I will do it for you.
Tomorrow I will go to the temple
And try to find the mmonk
The monk

very well; I am looking forward to you
have a lot of thanks

So
Tomorrow if you have time please online

ok; tomorrow or if not tomrrow then in the next days

I will be the temple at 14. pm. Thai time
Think the monk can talk to you
To many questions

if I should not be on Facebook write me an email to elmar@elstel.org. I always get emails via my mobile phone quickly.

I interesting to my religion but I really very bad English …
Okay
I promise you
smily

When you are finished thesis

well that will require some time

Are you serious?

at first I need a subject I am allowed to write about

Ok

then it is not always easy to work out about a subject which is interesting
I want an interesting subject not a boring one
many students prefer boring subjects if they can get a grade easily

Sure! I respect you

what about karma and ambition?
are ambitions for what you believe to be good good for the karma?

Good question
For me karma and ambition look like but not same

do you mean: look similar??

Karma can be under control about what you do.. it's good or not but ambition it's just want to do to get the things do you want without good or not

do you mean: look similar??

Yes

no to me ambition is not about selfishness
what about an ambition to make our world a better place

no to me ambition is not about selfishness

He he

if I believe the things I am researching can make the world a better place it will be good for the karma; won´t it?
I am just wishing good to humankind
most people do also want their work to be satisfactory/senseful for the society
later: “I have chosen to write a SAT solver for master thesis. It could be used to find bugs and security issues. This can be important for our freedom if the right people are in charge of the bugfinder.”
meaningful for the society
... but actually our current econmic system does not perform that for many of us

if I believe the things I am researching can make the world a better place it will be good for the karma; won´t it?

This is karma
Good karma

yes; add it to your printout; perhaps the 'good deed' - and I mean ambition for the good is not valued enough among the public - the monk will sure tell his opinion!

Ok
I will do for you

The problem why I think it is not so good to tell about Karma is that people will just care about themselves and probably abstain from uniting and raising their voices jointly (pointing out some injustice in the society). However this would be necessary to allow for social change.

In deed S. has organized a monk for me and given me his email address. I have written him exactly this conversation as you can read it here as HTML. He answered me and said that I am a good guy but he did not answer me any of the questions you can read about in the beginning of this letter

Buddhism aims, as all religions argue to do, to make the people a better people. However I would also believe that by always doing what you may believe to be good in a specific moment may turn out to have been bad in the end if you do not have a broader vision for the future as well as a good enough understanding of your current reality. It means you really need to care about doing something good for humankind or the people you like, you need to gather information, think about it and then adjust what you do. Just not wanting to do bad in the very moment you act may fall short. I will call this precept “ambition for the good”. To me it is much about responsibility and true intent to consider for the future. If you say ‘I did not want bad that time’ you would also need to think whether you could already have known better at that time. Having no own vision of the future you may fall into supporting what other people want; hopefully not a few bad people who rule …